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| Scottish kilts |
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| message from William McLachlan on 28 Jan 95 |
From my BARTHOLOMEW CLANS MAP OF SCOTLAND:
"large brass or silver *brooches* for fastening the plaid were made in the
17th and 18th centuries. The finest are heavily engraved. These *brooches*
were worn by women; men fastened their plaids with pins."
The pictured brooch is round with a hole in the middle, with a pin across
the diameter.
Cheers
\/\/ /\/\ William McLachlan w...@wmld.com
\/\/ /\/\ Lighting Designer, Automated Lighting Dude.
\/\/ /\/\ currently on the road somewhere in the world...
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| Chris Wicklein replied to William McLachlan on 30 Jan 95 |
(soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.britis
What you describe sounds more like the pins celtic men used to fasten their
cloaks. These were old in Ireland when the Norse came. Is this also what
kilts are fastened with?
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| Peter J Lusby replied to William McLachlan on 1 Feb 1995 |
BTW, for those of our US readers who may be unfamiliar with the
word, "brooch" is pronounced broach (just like in "to broach the
subject"). Just trying to be helpful.
p...@audre.audre.com | A dust whom England bore, shaped,
San Diego, CA, USA | made aware... Rupert Brooke
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| Peter J Lusby replied to William McLachlan on 1 Feb 1995 |
BTW, for those of our US readers who may be unfamiliar with the
word, "brooch" is pronounced broach (just like in "to broach the
subject"). Just trying to be helpful.
p...@audre.audre.com | A dust whom England bore, shaped,
San Diego, CA, USA | made aware... Rupert Brooke
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| Fiona Hyland replied to William McLachlan on 2 Feb 1995 |
They sound like the ancient Irish brooches called Tara brooches. They are
not-quite-complete circles with a hole in the middle, and a pin across them;
I wonder if that's where the scots got their idea...
Fiona
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| Hugo Davenport replied to Fiona Hyland on 3 Feb 1995 |
This would not be surprising because the Scotti were an Irish tribe
who (I think) were invited by a northern Welsh king to do a bit of
fighting on his behalf (5th/6th cent?). They ended up spreading throughout the West of Scotland,
which is why Erse and Gaelic are mutually comprehendable (with an effort, I'm told.
Their descendants returned the favour by settling in N. Ireland about
1000 years later.
Hugo Davenport
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| Damien Cox replied to Hugo Davenport on 3 Feb 1995 |
This is not quite true. The people from Scotland who settled in Ulster in
the 16th-17th centurys were from the Lowland and Border regions of Scotland,
and would not have been the same ethnic grouping who inhabited the Highlands,
the descendants of the Scotti you mention. There were some examples of
Highlanders and Islands `returning' to Ireland in the 12th and 13th Centuries
to fight as mercenaries, often on behalf of the Pale and the Normans. The
name McCabe (Mac Cabaigh) comes from this minor migration.
Damian.
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| Hugo Davenport replied to Fiona Hyland on 3 Feb 1995 |
This would not be surprising because the Scotti were an Irish tribe
who (I think) were invited by a northern Welsh king to do a bit of
fighting on his behalf (5th/6th cent?). They ended up spreading throughout the West of Scotland,
which is why Erse and Gaelic are mutually comprehendable (with an effort, I'm told.
Their descendants returned the favour by settling in N. Ireland about
1000 years later.
Hugo Davenport
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| Hugo Davenport replied to Fiona Hyland on 3 Feb 1995 |
This would not be surprising because the Scotti were an Irish tribe
who (I think) were invited by a northern Welsh king to do a bit of
fighting on his behalf (5th/6th cent?). They ended up spreading throughout the West of Scotland,
which is why Erse and Gaelic are mutually comprehendable (with an effort, I'm told.
Their descendants returned the favour by settling in N. Ireland about
1000 years later.
Hugo Davenport
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| Liz Beaumont Bissell replied to Hugo Davenport on 3 Feb 1995 |
My grandfather studied Irish in Dublin (can't remember which university,
he attended Trinity and the University of Ireland simultaneously (!)),
and subsequently lectured in Gaelic at either Aberdeen or Edinburgh.
Lectured in Chemistry as well, I believe. (A little vague on this, like
all the relatives one would have liked to meet, he died a decade before
I was born....)
Reminds me of the passage in 1066 And All That (The Scots, who were
really *Irish*.... etc.)
Liz B. B.
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